the others were allowed to control matters of religion and birth and marriage, and it was thought by ben gurren that these people who were already small in number and fairly isolated would eventually play themselves out. the early secular zionists thought the ultra-orttext would kind of die out. they didn't. they have lots of babies and their families grow and grow, and, "therefore, their proportion is larger. they don't serve in the military. they get enormous subsidies so that their kids can just study and not entertain mainstream of society. and main stream israeli society-- not just secular society-- is tired of that. they're tired of footing the bill. they're tired of seeing their kids serve in the military and not their kids. and yair lapid exemplifies it. >> rose: dennis, weigh in now, having listened to both of them, and you've spent as much time as anybody i know representing the united states in the region. >> i agree with pretty much both what david and port said. let me just add a couple of point, one, picking up on the last theme of sharing the burden. you you know, ther